Over & Under Trail or others deleted from map

[Sharon Saracino]

While I was reading a post from "Old Girl Scout", I noticed that she mentioned the Over and Under trail. I have a copy of the old Minnewaska hiking map and I see that Over and Under (which is now called Millbrook Mtn. trail) and many other trails have been changed or are not on the map that they give out at the gate house, or the NY NJ Trail Conference maps. I am wondering if she knows anything about some of the old trails that have been eliminated and would be willing to share any information she may have as to any land marks, etc. to help find some of the old trails. Thanks!

[Christian]

Overcliff undercliff are carriage roads on Mohonk Preserve property on the North side of Rt44/55. bordering Minnewaska property.

[Old Girl Scout]

Under and Over is a different trail from Undercliff and Overcliff. It began at the outlet of Lake Minnewaska and adjoined Millbrook Mountain trail. I used to call the whole stretch Over and Under (or vice versa) because it dips down to a stream and back up again to Millbrook Mt.

Here are some of the trails I remember that have been abandoned and are no longer on maps. There was one to some crevices, which had wooden ladders to climb down into. Nice and cool on a hot day, just as if it were air conditioned. There was a trail that joined Awosting Lake Road (now called Upper) to Dallas Pool (I've always known it as Secret Spot). There was a trail on the south side of Mud Pond (Haseco Lake) from which you could go to a firetower and/or Verkeerderkill Falls. At some point the trail was moved to north side. Fire tower's gone; I went up it once. I still have an old map, Hikers Region Map, published by Walking News, Inc., 1979, on which the southside trail is the way to go. That map probably shows more "lost" trails. It's difficult to read.

When I was in college (early '70's) I looked up Lake MInnewaska in the phone book, called and requested a trail map. Some one immediately mailed me an original old style map for free. I liked the bird's-eye/landscape effect, the sepia tone, and the little old-fashioned photos around the edge. Unfortunately, I folded it and kept it in my pocket whenever I went exploring, and inevitably it disintegrated. Decades later, when I discovered replica copies were available from this website I was happy to get one. Now, only my NYNJTC maps go out of the house.

[Ridge70]

There was a trail on the south side of Mud Pond (Haseco Lake) from which you could go to a firetower and/or Verkeerderkill Falls. At some point the trail was moved to north side. Fire tower's gone; I went up it once. I still have an old map, Hikers Region Map, published by Walking News, Inc., 1979, on which the southside trail is the way to go. That map probably shows more "lost" trails. It's difficult to read.

I was on the south side of the trail a few years ago with another nynj trail conference member who pointed it out. we were doing some maintenance work between mud pond and lake awosting. he knew about the old trail and we had to bushwhack a bit to get from the north side to the south side. it was worth it though. some nice views of mud pond from that side. much much better than the limited view from the north side. the south trail also hooks up with one of the dirt roads in the awosting reserve once you leave the lake.

it would be great if you could scan and post that old 1979 map.

here's a shot of mud pond from the south trail:

[Old Girl Scout]

Joe, Thanks for posting your beautiful photo of Mud Pond/Haseco Lake. Makes me want to go back up there. I like your suggestion to scan and post my 1979 Walking News trail map. This afternoon it was too hot and humid to go out, so I scanned the map and attempted to post it. I can't figure out how to do it. I got a few different auto-responses such as "too big" and "PDF not allowed". I experimented ad nauseum with JPEG, BMP, etc. I'm no good at this. Meanwhile it rained, cooled off (a little), and I'm getting out of here!

[Ridge70]

Joe, Thanks for posting your beautiful photo of Mud Pond/Haseco Lake. Makes me want to go back up there. I like your suggestion to scan and post my 1979 Walking News trail map. This afternoon it was too hot and humid to go out, so I scanned the map and attempted to post it. I can't figure out how to do it. I got a few different auto-responses such as "too big" and "PDF not allowed". I experimented ad nauseum with JPEG, BMP, etc. I'm no good at this. Meanwhile it rained, cooled off (a little), and I'm getting out of here!

glad you enjoyed...maybe you might want to try scanning at a lower resolution? that might cut the file size down a bit. you could also just hang on to the pdf and email it out to people that might be interested. i don't think this site has a "pm" (private message) function? that way, people don't have to advertise their emails if they don't want to.

[Paul]

I would love it if anyone could be more specific about the location of the old trail on the south side of Mud Pond/Haseco Lake. I vaguely remember the trail from years ago and have made a few tries to find it (coming from the Awosting Direction) but have only run into impassable brush.

From the Awosting side does it follow the shore and then climb up the rocks parrallel to the shore or does it swing out above the rocks and then go along the shore? Any tips?

What if I am coming from the Verkeerderkill Falls side? Does the old trail still exist on that side and how to find it?

Or if I am coming up the dirt road from Awosting Reserve are there any landmarks to show where I turn off for this trail?

Many Many thanks.
Paul

[johnwill1965]

This is great link with old topo maps for the area, includes many old trails throughout the Mohonk, Minnewaska area(s), and by Marantanza, Awosting, etc. Maps are from the turn of the last century (1906) or thereabouts. Under 'New York' click 'Quad index' then search for 'Ellenville', "Rosendale' and 'Slide Mountain' quads. These are 15 minute quads so this equals 4 (four) 7.5 minute quads. It's easier to download what you want to look at then view through your computer--they download as jpg image files.

http://docs.unh.edu/nhtopos/nhtopos.htm